• Guild Wars 2 Wiki
• Guild Wars 2 Damage Meter

• 1Attacking and damage
  • 1.1Weapon damage
  • 1.2Skill damage
  • 1.3Critical hits
• 2Armor and defense
  • 2.2Effect of armor
• 3Consolidation

## 2.2.0.0 2017-04-21 15:00. Separated the different BGDM modules and created 2 separate downloads, TOS compliant and Non-TOS compliant to accommodate GW2 China players. Gear Check as well as the new floating HP bars functionality has been moved to the Non-TOS version; Gear Check and the floating HP bars code was deleted from the TOS. A mesmer meditates to charge up their mantras before battle and then use them at will without interrupting their other skills. Glamours are enchantments that manipulate the fabric of reality around the mesmer, allowing them to create effects such as invisibility, teleportation, and bubbles of. If you have less than 2 shades. Cast or before every shade to proc. ⇒ Scepter autoattack chain; General Tips. If using, use it whenever there are enemies near the main target. Feel free to use, or if life force is over capping, or to support your teammates with cleanses, barriers, and CC.

Damage in Guild Wars is governed by two variables : the effective damage of the attack and the defense of the target.

In mathematical form:

When a given attack deals damage multiple times - such as with Dancing Daggers or Stone Daggers, each instance must be considered as a separate attack.

Attacking and damage[edit]

The base damage of an attack depends on both your character's statistics, and on situational modifiers, such as attacking a target over a cliff. Height advantage effect is currently unknown, and being situational thsi page will focus on the former. The following analysis is based on level 20 characters with maxbasic armor and maxed attribute ranks (attribute levels).

Weapon damage[edit]

If you are attacking the target with a melee weapon (sword, axe, hammer, daggers, scythe) or a ranged weapon (bow, spear) the amount of damage that you'll naturally deal depends on both the inherent damage of the weapon, and your level in the corresponding attribute. The relationship between your attribute level and damage is a simple exponential over a normal attribute level range:

However, there is a threshold beyond which additional attribute levels provide less benefit. For level 20 characters, that threshold is 12. Each additional attribute level beyond 12 provides only 40% as much benefit as levels under 12 provide. This attribute threshold is based on your current character level, as follows:

Thus, if you include the effects of the threshold, the full equation is:

Example of weapon damage calculation[edit]

If you had a normal, customized (20% more damage) 15-22 damage Fiery Dragon Sword, and a level 9 Swordsmanship attribute, each swing with the weapon would deal:

While swinging the same sword with a level 12 attribute would deal:

While pumping up your weapon attribute continues to give outstanding returns on damage all the way to level 12, it drops off quickly after that. For a level 20 character, attribute level 13 is less than half as effective as the previous level at raising your damage. So while having a high attribute level certainly looks impressive on your stat screen, it isn't providing as much benefit as one might think.

Skill damage[edit]

The vast majority of the time, you aren't just attacking, you're using skills to augment, replace, or just outright deal damage to your opponent. As a baseline, the amount of damage that you'll deal with a skill is listed in that skill's description - rounded to the nearest integer. The damage you deal is almost never the same as in your description. In the case of skills, your character's level plays a role in how much damage you'll actually deal:

Example of skill damage calculation[edit]

A level 6 Elementalist with a Fire Magic attribute of 5. Each Flare (35 damage at attribute 5) you cast is going to be dealing:

If you then gained a level but didn't raise your Fire Magic attribute, your Flares would be dealing more damage regardless, to the tune of:

Unlike weapon damage, you don't exactly have control over your character's level - you're going to be dealing 100% of listed skill damage once you hit level 20. This makes it incredibly easy to min/max your skills, since the damage you're going to deal in combat is the same as the one listed in the skill description. You'll find this effect most useful when planning an attack against a mob who will quite often have levels that vary considerably from your own. For example, take a level 30 Elementalist boss casting a level 12 Deep Freeze:

There's one more category of attacks to consider - attacking an enemy with a wand or staff. Wands and staves aren't weapons in the purest sense - a more apt description is 'skill on a stick', as the damage they deal scales up with your character level, not your weapon attribute. In other respects, they act like all other weapons. Take a customized 6-10 wand, for example - when wielded by a level 10 character, each strike will deal:

Critical hits[edit]

Every time you strike a foe with a weapon of any sort you have a chance of landing a critical hit. Each critical hit strikes for maximum damage, with the additional bonus of hitting as though your target has their armor level reduced by 20. This translates into each critical hit dealing 141% of your maximum effective weapon damage, every time.

Example of critical hit calculation[edit]

Every critical hit with a customized top (6-28) axe and a level 12 Axe Mastery will deal:

The frequency with which you will land a critical hit is dependent upon several factors - your character level, the level of the target, and, if you're using a sword, axe, or hammer, the appropriate attribute level. D&d 5e dmg standard scores feat. The exact formula for landing a critical chance is as follows:

In rough terms, your chance of landing a critical hit against a foe of comparable level with a level 12 weapon mastery is roughly 12% - if you're a level 20 character beating up on level 1 targets with a level 12 weapon mastery, your critical chance is close to 90%.

Weapon requirements[edit]

Many of the weapons that you'll find require you to have a certain level in a linked attribute to be effective: Swords that require 9 Swordsmanship, Bows that require 7 Marksmanship, and the like. If you do not meet the requirements on a given weapon, your effectiveness with it will be greatly reduced.

In simplest terms, if you do not meet the requirements on a given weapon it will deal damage like a starter weapon of the same type. Thus, if you find a 10-20 wand but don't meet the requirements, it'll deal damage like a 2-4 wand of the same type. However, the weapon will keep all modifiers. Thus, if you were using a 14-20 Sword Of Enchanting (+20% enchantment durations) and don't meet the requirements, it would only deal the 2-4 damage, but you would still get the +20% enchantment duration from the modifier. This includes internal modifiers - some weapons have built-in additions to damage, and these will remain even if you don't meet the requirements.This is most readily apparent on a focus - if you find a normal +10 energy focus and don't meet the requirement, you will only get +3 energy from equipping it. However, if you get a +12 focus - a +10 focus with an internal +2 modifier - you'll get 5 energy from equipping it, even if you don't meet the requirement. Thus you are always better off using a weapon with a requirement you can reach - unless the only thing you want access to is the weapon's modifiers.

NOTE: It has been noted elsewhere in this wiki (in the Weapons article), that dropped weapons have different rules if you don't meet the requirements than collector or reward weapons. According to the Weapons article, dropped items do 1/2 damage, rather than the damage of a starter weapon, so a sword that does 11-22, which was a dropped item, should do 5-11 if you don't meet the requirement. There is no reference in either article as to bonus weapons, though from anecdotal evidence, it follows the same equation as dropped weapons.

Armor and defense[edit]

Once you know how much damage an attack is supposed to do, you can start thinking about the defense of the target, to figure out how much damage you will actually do - or how much damage you will take when someone swings back. This means talking about how your armor works, as well as any defense boosting skills.

Hit locations[edit]

Each player can use up to five pieces of armor - a chest piece, leggings, boots, gloves, and a headpiece. Any given attack on a player will hit one of these five locations, and only the armor at that location is considered - all the other pieces are ignored. Additional defensive measures, such as an armor-boosting enchantment or a shield, are added to the target's defense, regardless of hit location.

Exactly where a given attack will strike depends on the height of the attacker and the type of the attack. Player characters always use normal attacks, for all attack types. Monsters that are very low to the ground generally use low melee attacks, and those that are very tall or flying generally use high melee attacks. However, if a monster uses a missile weapon, then the monster's height is ignored.

Your chest piece is your most important piece of armor, as it receives the highest percentage of hits. Leggings come in a close second. Other than that, mixing up your armor can make for some unique aesthetics, but it is unlikely to have any practical effect.

Effect of armor[edit]

The effect of the target's armor damage is ruled by the following exponential function :

As you can see from the table, the target will take exactly the amount of damage they are expected to when they have an armor level of 60, and adding or subtracting 40 defense will result in them suffering half or double damage, respectively.

Example of armor effect calculation[edit]

A 30 damage physical attack directed at a Warrior wearing armor without Knight's Insignia (80 AL, +20 AL vs. Physical) using a 16 AL shield, would deal:

While that same attack on an Elementalist in a non-max level armor with Pyromancer Insignia (45 AL + 10 AL vs. Elemental, +10AL vs. Fire) would deal:

Note that the Elementalist actually suffered more damage than what the attack would have naturally dealt. This is the case whenever a target has a net armor rating below 60.

If the warrior's armor is upgraded with Knight's insignias and a Rune of Absorption, the shield has the inscription 'Run For Your Life!' that reduces damage by 2 while in a stance, and this attribute is active during the hit, then the damage gets reduced to:

Note that this is only one tenth of the damage that would be dealt to an unprepared elementalist facing the same attack against a 60AL.

Now by using a skill such as 'I Am Unstoppable!' or Vow of Piety and carrying the same shield, that same warrior can receive:

Armor penetration[edit]

Armor penetration is incredibly straightforward - it simply allows you to ignore the listed percentage of the target's total defense. If a given attack has 10% armor penetration and the target has an armor level of 100, he will only have an armor rating of 90 for the purposes of defending against this attack. Thus the armor penetration equation:

To give you an idea of how this works, here's a piece of the armor effectiveness table, adjusted for various levels of Armor Penetration:

So the 30 damage attack from the previous examples dealt 11.6 damage to a well-defended Warrior, that same attack with 50% armor penetration would deal:

If you're having trouble taking down a target with an exceptional armor rating, attacks with armor penetration are exactly what you're looking for.

Ignoring armor[edit]

Some skills, such as Illusionary Weaponry, allow you to deal damage that ignores the target's armor entirely (as well as the level-based damage multiplier on non-weapon damage). In the absence of non-armor damage reduction effects, figuring out the damage actually dealt by a skill that ignores armor is trivial, as they work exactly as advertised - they literally do ignore the target's armor, dealing the damage listed in the skill description directly to the target. Mathematically, this means that an attack that ignores armor always considers the target's Defensive Adjustment to be 1, and the original equation reduces to:

So if a skill's description says it will deal 40 damage ignoring armor, it'll deal 40 damage every time unless some other damage modifier, such as damage reduction, interferes. Not only does ignoring armor help immensely when attacking someone with a lot of armor - it makes your calculations easier as well.

Because armor ignoring damage also ignores the skill damage multiplier, a level 1 player character or NPC will deal the same damage with an armor-ignoring skill as a level 20 player character or NPC or a level 28 NPC with the same skill and attributes.

Consolidation[edit]

While it makes combat easier when you understand each aspect, you lose sight of the so-called 'big picture' and how all of these aspects are intertwined. It's time to put them all together into a single equation that shows what's ultimately going on.

As mentioned before all of the numbers, equations, and charts are normalized for level 20 characters. While this is necessary to present the data in a reasonable manner, it's important to note that the choice of basis is arbitrary. Indeed, you might have picked up already what happens when a character with a level 0 attribute attacks a target with 0 armor:

The result is exactly the same as what would happen if your level 20 character with a weapon attribute of 12 attacked an opponent with 60 defense! The underlying truth of the matter - the damage equations we've been talking about so far are just different aspects of a single, self-normalizing equation. With no further ado:

Consequently, characters will actually be dealing base damage to enemies as long as their Strike Level is close to their Armor Level - which, if they're following the normal progression of the game, will be pretty much all of the time. Game mechanics don't revolve around characters at level 20, but at whatever level you happen to be at the time.

Damage affecting skills and situations work by manipulating one of these three values. Weapon customization increases your Base Damage by 20%. A critical hit increases your Strike Level by 20, while 50% armor penetration reduces their Armor Level by 50%. Attacks that ignore armor forget about Strike and Armor Levels entirely and just deal base damage. Every damage effect in the game can be represented in a similar fashion.Examples:

• A level 15 Elementalist attacks a level 7 Charr(21 AL) with 69 damage, level 8 Fireballs. Each one you cast is going to deal:

• A level 1 Warrior with a level 2 Hammer Mastery and a customized 5-10 Hammer (with critical hit: +20 damage) attacking a level 2 Flash Gargoyle (6 AL) is going to deal:

• A level 20 Ranger with a customized, 15-28 Half Moon Bow, and a level 12 attribute to go with it. Attacking a level 28 Rift Warden(118 AL) with Penetrating Attack:

That's all there is to it. You now have the tools needed to figure out the damage from any attack in the game, and choices can be made based upon actual effects experienced in the game world, not just numbers shown on your character screen.

Example 1[edit]

To add the calculation of an exceedingly complex situation with twin level 20 warriors in PvP using the axe attacks Cleave or Penetrating Blow, both while in a stance (such as Sprint) with attributes of 12 in both strength and axe mastery, wielding a sundering axe (20%) with +15% while in stance modifier, and striking a warrior wearing armor with Dreadnought Insignia of Superior Absorption and carrying a shield with 16AL and -2 damage while in stance :

Strength grants 12% penetration, the axe grants 20% penetration (20% of the time), the axe has 20% increased damage from customization, the axe has 15% increased damage from the modifier and the skill does damage in addition to this attack.

The sum of the armor penetrations makes the armor of the opposing warrior:

The weapon damage is:

The skill damage is 26.

The damage reduction is:

So the damage range for this attack is between 26.970 and 48.858 with an average of 37.914.

The axe grants 20% penetration (20% of the time), the skill grants 20% penetration, the axe has 20% increased damage from customization, the axe has 15% increased damage from the modifier and the skill does its own damage in addition to this attack.

The sum of the armor penetrations makes the armor of the opposing warrior:

The weapon damage is:

The skill damage is 17.

The damage reduction is:

So the damage range for this attack is between 19.011 and 44.718 with an average of 31.865 - slightly less than Cleave and at a slightly higher Adrenaline cost, but without taking the elite skill slot.

Example 2[edit]

Guild Wars 2 Wiki

If the situation changes and one of these twin warriors is now striking the opposing monk (who only has 60 AL against physical)

The sum of the armor penetrations makes the armor of the opposing monk:

The weapon damage is:

The skill damage is 26.

Guild Wars 2 Damage Meter

So the damage range for this attack is between 37.548 and 79.893 with an average of 58.721.

The sum of the armor penetrations makes the armor of the opposing monk:

The weapon damage is:

The skill damage is 17.

So the damage range for this attack is between 29.550 and 75.567 with an average of 52.559 – half again that of this attack against the warrior, which is to be expected since the monk only has about half the armor and does not carry damage reducing shields or runes.

See also[edit]

References[edit]

A Treatise on Combat Mathematics by Charles Ensign (original source of this article)

The text of this wiki article was originally taken verbatim from Charles Ensign's treatise, used with his permission. It has since been enhanced with additional findings and clarifications from the Guild Wars community and development team.

I have heard a lot of back and forth about this and I just want to know for sure before I go and download something that is going to get my account banned.
Are DPS Meter's against Anet Policy? I've searched the forums and that only added to my confusion with these two forum discussions.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1570/psa-build-templates-by-arcdps-green-lighted-by-arenanet
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5193/how-to-get-addons-for-dps-hp-numbers
Please help.

Comments

• Sorry, I don't have an actual answer for you, just the question. Why? Why do you even need this?

  Tarnished Coast - Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/NM Daredevil Ranger Guardian
  Scrapper Necromancer Berserker Dragonhunter Mesmer Elementalist Deadeye Warrior Herald
  Daredevil Reaper Spellbreaker Weaver Chronomancer Soulbeast Holosmith Revenant Mirage

• edited January 7, 2018

  I actually think it's usefull to improve yourself to see if you do the right rotation to optimize your dps etc . SO i think anet tolerates it

  And i can relate it can be scary as ppl kick other players cause they don't have enough dps (known thanks to that add-on) from fractals or raids .. can be pretty toxic but almost never saw things like that in raids for now but hey i'm just at 25 LI and playing raids casualy XD most of the time it's not a dps issue but a 'staying alive' and/or mechanics issues.

• edited January 7, 2018

  DPS meters are allowed and deltaconnected has a few more relevant links on his website: https://www.deltaconnected.com/arcdps/

  4

• ArcDPS is 3rd party allowed to use by anet security officer. However, they do not check the compliance of the tool for every update and anet will never help you if this tool causes any harm to your account. It's 'use it at your own risk' policy.

• edited January 7, 2018

  @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
  Sorry, I don't have an actual answer for you, just the question. Why? Why do you even need this?

  It is exactly as @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 stated, 'to optimize my DPS'

  Thank you @CptAurellian.9537 for your quick response.

• As stated, DPS meters in general are allowed. But please research the meter of your choice and check it against the reddit post mentioned by CptAurellian
  There are some limitations for the data collection the entire thirdparty tool can use. Most popular ones are ok (obviously), but not all.

• DPS meter should primarily be used to help you improve your own damage and theory crafting. It also adds another level of competition in WvW and Raids.

  0
• edited January 7, 2018

  Right now I think the only DPS meter that they allow is arcDPS, it also comes with an add-on for build templates if you want those.

• 6
• 0

• @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
  Sorry, I don't have an actual answer for you, just the question. Why? Why do you even need this?

  A DPS meter benchmarks your DPS, just a wild guess here, but I reckon he wants to know how much damage he's doing..

• DPS meter is a tool helping massively to learn and improve. It is showing if the player is casting skills timely and if the combination of skill used gives expected efficiency in term of damages. It becomes even more helpful if doing seriously WvW, Raids and Fractals. In that case, a certain rotation shall apply, and the DPS meter is in that case incredibly supportive because the result matters for the whole team.

  As said in other threads before: A DPS meter is a good tool. That some players use it for unfair purposes is due to the people, not due to the tool.

  Personally I believe that the best solution would be that Anet is adding one integrated into the game, what would give them full control on it. It could be adjusted to prevent unfair use, like for example, with the option for the player to share - or not - data to others.

  Officer of Equinox Solstice [TIME] / Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
  WvW server: Henge of Denravi
  https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

• If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

• edited May 1, 2018

  @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  I say kick them all. Last person i tried to help fix their build because who the hell runs 25% movement signets in the raid, started insulting me for being toxic elitist telling him how to play. It's just not worth the effort trying to help people, since they never listen and then all get 'toxic casual' at you.

• @Cynn.1659 said:

  @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  I say kick them all. Last person i tried to help fix their build because who the hell runs 25% movement signets in the raid, started insulting me for being toxic elitist telling him how to play. It's just not worth the effort trying to help people, since they never listen and then all get 'toxic casual' at you.

  Depends on the recipient, if the player responds as this guy did, kick away! But if they actually take advice on board and do start to improve, you helped another player for the better in a fractal/raid scenario.

  2

• @Cynn.1659 said:

  @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  I say kick them all. Last person i tried to help fix their build because who the hell runs 25% movement signets in the raid, started insulting me for being toxic elitist telling him how to play. It's just not worth the effort trying to help people, since they never listen and then all get 'toxic casual' at you.

  And this right here is why I will not go anywhere near raids.

• @Cynn.1659 said:

  @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  I say kick them all. Last person i tried to help fix their build because who the hell runs 25% movement signets in the raid, started insulting me for being toxic elitist telling him how to play. It's just not worth the effort trying to help people, since they never listen and then all get 'toxic casual' at you.

  That would be mean and generate more hate for meter

• If people read the announcements page, people would know what made people get banned. Arc dps is legit and you will not get banned for using it. Matter of fact I use it, and did not get banned. And I have a few buddies who use it. Arenanet also said they supported arcdps. And will not make their own meter. So all you gotta do is download it and instal into your bin64.

  Meters are great to keep you in check.

• @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
  Sorry, I don't have an actual answer for you, just the question. Why? Why do you even need this?

  dps meters help you improve. After installing arc, I discovered that my damage in fractals was pretty bad. This was obviously because i was moving and dodging and curing all over the place, instead of letting our healer do his job.

  But until you don't see it, you don't believe it. I discovered that dps can and will plummet if you don't find the way to be efficient.

  Only once someone told me my dps was bad. And i had been sucking all of my life before that!!!!

• edited May 1, 2018

  0

• @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  I agree with this, but unfortunately players like that treat other players like NPCs or tools to help that person win, not someone they're actually playing a game with. I just avoid everyone that even mentions using a DPS meter because I don't play like that. Don't need that negativity in my life.

  Daud Dreadwyrm Renegade Yak's Bend (NA) I don't want to play anymore because GW2 has just become a pointless grindfest.

• @Dreamy Lu.3865 said:
  Personally I believe that the best solution would be that Anet is adding one integrated into the game, what would give them full control on it. It could be adjusted to prevent unfair use, like for example, with the option for the player to share - or not - data to others.

  I don't think it would be a good option to hide your damage to the others, because the point of a dps meter is also to know how you perform relatively to the others, not just how much damage you did. In WvW, I play as power Herald or power Weaver, so I should be in the top 10 damage of my squad, that way I know I did my job, but if I only see that I did 320k damage and don't know what the others did because they all hide their data, I won't be able to tell if I did good or not.

• @Tails.9372 said:
  DPS meter should be an ingame feature.

  NAh - all DPS meters
  should be completely banned!

• edited May 1, 2018

  @Aenesthesia.1697 said:

  @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
  Sorry, I don't have an actual answer for you, just the question. Why? Why do you even need this?

  dps meters help you improve. After installing arc, I discovered that my damage in fractals was pretty bad. This was obviously because i was moving and dodging and curing all over the place, instead of letting our healer do his job.

  But until you don't see it, you don't believe it. I discovered that dps can and will plummet if you don't find the way to be efficient.

  Only once someone told me my dps was bad. And i had been sucking all of my life before that!!!!

  How did you not know your DPS was bad? It's incredibly obvious when your DPS isn't good, it takes too long to kill things. The DPS on my main is not good. It takes a long time to kill stuff because he's designed around survival not DPS. He can take multiple hits that would instantly defeat other builds, but I don't pretend his DPS is good just because I don't use a meter.

  Tarnished Coast - Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/NM Daredevil Ranger Guardian
  Scrapper Necromancer Berserker Dragonhunter Mesmer Elementalist Deadeye Warrior Herald
  Daredevil Reaper Spellbreaker Weaver Chronomancer Soulbeast Holosmith Revenant Mirage

• @Kal Spiro.9745 said:

  @Aenesthesia.1697 said:

  @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
  Sorry, I don't have an actual answer for you, just the question. Why? Why do you even need this?

  dps meters help you improve. After installing arc, I discovered that my damage in fractals was pretty bad. This was obviously because i was moving and dodging and curing all over the place, instead of letting our healer do his job.

  But until you don't see it, you don't believe it. I discovered that dps can and will plummet if you don't find the way to be efficient.

  Only once someone told me my dps was bad. And i had been sucking all of my life before that!!!!

  No mountable file systems dmg fix. You can use Mac Data Recovery Software as it is very advanced and reliable tool.

  How did you not know your DPS was bad? It's incredibly obvious when your DPS isn't good, it takes too long to kill things. The DPS on my main is not good. It takes a long time to kill stuff because he's designed around survival not DPS. He can take multiple hits that would instantly defeat other builds, but I don't pretend his DPS is good just because I don't use a meter.

  Maybe his dps wasnt that Bad and he was in zerker gear. I mean If every1 in ur party does 20k dps and you do 15k, meter is a good way to see that.

  I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

• @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  Hmmm.. Here is what I got from T4, not even raids, when trying to help someone. Power reaper, he was (didnt kick him for it)
  'Mate, could you use pots and food? We all are. It makes your life easier, along with everyone else's. Also, that locust sig could be replaced with a better utility. Thanks'
  'I wanted to do 86 first, why you change it to 96?'
  'Its all in the dailies, mate. We will do 86 later. We always start with the highest to lowest. Now, about that food and pot--'
  'kitten. I want to do 86.'

  And it goes on till the kick. Please, PLEASE dont tell me you havent run into guys like this one. Being helpful, is one thing. The other side has to want to be helped. People, apparently, hate being told that they have better alternatives in endgame stuff. So.. There is that. Dont get me wrong, elitism exists, people will also oftentimes say 'noob signet nec, kick' without as much as a second glance. But.. YEah.

• People who kick others for they dont meet silly requirments are bullies > @Voltekka.2375 said:

  @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If you see someone in raid under performing dont kick help person get better

  Hmmm.. Here is what I got from T4, not even raids, when trying to help someone. Power reaper, he was (didnt kick him for it)
  'Mate, could you use pots and food? We all are. It makes your life easier, along with everyone else's. Also, that locust sig could be replaced with a better utility. Thanks'
  'I wanted to do 86 first, why you change it to 96?'
  'Its all in the dailies, mate. We will do 86 later. We always start with the highest to lowest. Now, about that food and pot--'
  'kitten. I want to do 86.'

  And it goes on till the kick. Please, PLEASE dont tell me you havent run into guys like this one. Being helpful, is one thing. The other side has to want to be helped. People, apparently, hate being told that they have better alternatives in endgame stuff. So.. There is that. Dont get me wrong, elitism exists, people will also oftentimes say 'noob signet nec, kick' without as much as a second glance. But.. YEah.

  If they dont want to be helped then those who better should carry that person anyway
  Who are they too judge that there way is better

• 'should carry that person'.
  No, sorry. Noone should carry anyone who doesnt want to improve. Also, toxic behavior should never be encouraged, be it in the form of elitism or laziness.

• There is so much more that makes a player skilled than damage per second alone. Some players may have lower DPS but higher survivability and/or healing stats allowing them to survive where pure DPS specced players are dead on the ground. It is hard to measure the value of a player in a party with a number value, even if you take defensive and healing capabilities into consideration. The ability to lead, follow, communicate and know the strategy is at least as important to the success of the party.

  It can be good to know DPS, but I would not judge people on it. And that is where the core of the problem is. People get judged on DPS alone.

  Ascalon Will Prevail!

  GW Wiki user page GW2 Wiki user page

• @TheQuickFox.3826 said:
  There is so much more that makes a player skilled than damage per second alone. Some players may have lower DPS but higher survivability and/or healing stats allowing them to survive where pure DPS specced players are dead on the ground. It is hard to measure the value of a player in a party with a number value, even if you take defensive and healing capabilities into consideration. The ability to lead, follow, communicate and know the strategy is at least as important to the success of the party.

  It can be good to know DPS, but I would not judge people on it. And that is where the core of the problem is. People get judged on DPS alone.

  well, when you join a group as a dps,it is natural to be judged on your dps.
  and if you run healing stats for whatever reason you are propably in the wrong group anyway.

• @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
  If they dont want to be helped then those who better should carry that person anyway
  Who are they too judge that there way is better

  That's the kind of toxic attitude that leads to many misunderstandings.

• 1

• @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

  If they dont want to be helped then those who better should carry that person anyway
  Who are they too judge that there way is better

  You are, apparently. You said, '..then those who better should carry that person..'

  Games are played in, hopefully, peoples' leisure time. So, two people are playing in their leisure time. Why is the leisure time of the person who does not want to be 'helped' more important than the leisure time of the person who does not want to 'carry' him?

  Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana